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On this episode, we ask big questions about how customer loyalty is formed — and how AI can be leveraged to build stronger connections with customers.

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What does customer loyalty look like in the age of AI?

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Streamline your operations with TELUS Digital

What to speak with a business process consulting expert?

Discover how TELUS Digital’s business process consulting experts helped a leading telecommunications company drive improvements in its customer service delivery and efficiency.

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Streamline your operations

Check out our solutions

Maximizing profitability in telecom: leveraging customer insight for digital transformation excellence

Next-generation KPIs: Redefining customer experience measurement - Hero

Customer experience (CX) is evolving — and your measurement strategy should too. Discover how next-generation KPIs can offer deeper insight into CX performance, from customer effort and journey satisfaction to agent engagement and digital maturity.

Next-generation KPIs: Redefining customer experience measurement

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Explore the transformative potential of Contact Center-as-a-Service (CCaaS) solutions and learn how to navigate the evolving landscape of AI-driven customer interactions with this executive brief from Frost & Sullivan.

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The CCaaS breakthrough: Redefining customer interactions with AI

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Access the latest survey results and stay on top of CX developments in 2025 with this new report by Execs In The Know, sponsored by TELUS Digital.

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Execs In The Know: 2025 CX Leaders Trends & Insights

Discover how TELUS Digital transformed customer support for a leading cryptocurrency platform, scaling the program within weeks while achieving high customer satisfaction scores.

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Elevating the customer experience for a leading cryptocurrency platform

Discover how TELUS Digital helped a world-leading communications and technology company streamline workflows and enhance its quality standards by leveraging a cloud-native development strategy and advanced automation solutions, including AI-powered test-driven development (TDD).

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Optimizing app development with cloud-native solutions and automation

Achieve faster delivery, higher quality and cost efficiency in your software development

Optimizing application development with cloud-native solutions and automation

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Discover how TELUS Digital transformed Ascensus' retirement platform through intuitive experience design, turning a complex enrollment process into a streamlined digital journey and reducing support calls.

Discover how Ascensus leveraged TELUS Digital's web and user experience expertise to build their first large-scale web platform for managing retirement savings.

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Ready to revamp your financial services UX?

Creating seamless onboarding to expand retirement plan access

Watch this recorded webinar from Everest Group and TELUS Digital (formerly TELUS International) for new insights to help you skillfully transform your digital customer experience.

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Webinar: How to supercharge your CX with AI-fueled digital transformation

How to supercharge your CX with AI-fueled digital transformation

Discover how TELUS Digital used our proven field operations testing (FOT) experience to create a high-quality dataset for training advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS) and autonomous vehicles (AV).

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Curating high-quality data for the training and validation of ADAS and AV models

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Organizations have a responsibility to create and maintain digital experiences that are truthful, welcoming and safe. Learn how brands can keep pace with the growing levels of user-generated content (UGC) to build trust with their customers and protect their reputation.

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The future of content moderation: Strategies and tools for 2025 and beyond

Join industry experts from TELUS Digital and Everest Group as they explore how leading technologies, such as generative AI, automation, analytics and more, are delivering value for organizations without compromising service quality.

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Efficient CX delivery: A tech-driven approach

The words "product-market fit" have adorned tech industry pitch decks for some time. It's a simple concept, really, and something all successful businesses need to prove. To achieve product-market fit, the product(s) you offer as a business must align with the needs of the market. Without such a fit, you might have an idea, but perhaps not a business.

In fact, even if you have product-market fit, and therefore a business, you still might not have a long runway without profitability. This is particularly the case when challenging economic environments make venture capital funding more difficult to come by. That is precisely why scale-ups need to think beyond product-market fit, and strive to achieve profit-market fit.

Harvard Business School senior lecturer Jeffrey Rayport recently described profit-market fit on the HBR IdeaCast podcast. According to Rayport, profit-market fit is achieved when a venture not only shows that it can quickly ramp up revenue and its customer base, but also finds its sweet spot where every new customer brings in additional revenue and incurs only marginal cost. It's at this point, explains Rayport, that a venture "moves towards sustainability."

This major milestone isn't likely to be reached by accident, though. Rather, you need to be deliberate, and deploy strategies to overcome common challenges in the scaling journey.

Many companies, especially those in tech, can be successful in achieving product-market fit, says Rayport during the podcast interview, "But the wheels come off the bus in some way during the scaling phase."

Imagine you head up a start-up that seems destined for unicorn status. You have an app and it's topping the charts. You have customers and your number of active users is going through the roof. To date, your impressive numbers have earned you no shortage of admirers, and by extension, funding. But to get to where you are, you've needed to spend: Your servers, your offices, the growth of your team and a myriad of other costs outstrip the money that your product brings in. As a result, you can't sustain — let alone grow — your business without additional outside funding. Now, facing rising interest rates and economic pressures, that funding looks like it is going to dry up. Put simply, you haven't found profit-market fit — the relationship between the money and the product that enables businesses to steer themselves toward sustainability.

A strong profit-market fit helps you remove internal constraints on your company's growth, and makes you far less dependent on outside funding.

Challenges in establishing profit-market fit

There are, of course, challenges associated with scaling and reaching the point of profit-market fit.

Once there's a good product-market fit, a scaling company must keep up its generated demand and make strides toward product profitability. This brings us back to matters of efficiency — a word that's popping up all across the tech industry and one that's top of mind for start-ups, scale-ups and mainstays alike.  In fact, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg even went as far to say, "Our management theme for 2023 is the 'Year of Efficiency,' and we're focused on becoming a stronger and more nimble organization." For tech brands of all sizes, the pursuit of efficiency means keeping costs under control and doubling-down on activities that are generating revenue — but that's not where the work ends.

Other challenges include providing a consistent digital customer experience (CX) as your company grows, and maintaining a coherent organizational culture where people are on the same mission and where their efforts align.

Brian Hannon, global head of customer experience innovation - technology at TELUS Digital, points to the value of experience when facing challenges in the scaling journey. "Achieving profit-market fit is difficult. It's even harder when you're learning every lesson the hard way," explains Hannon. "You can build up a lot of momentum as a hit tech company, but it's easy to run into real challenges if you don't have a firm grasp on how to scale in a sustainable way."

Outsourcing digital CX to reach profit-market fit

One way to scale with efficiency in mind is to outsource aspects of your digital customer experience.

Keeping your CX in-house means dealing with sudden peaks and dips in demand that quickly become costly on the hiring front, to say nothing of the complexities that come serving new markets and establishing operations in new geographies. What's more, outsourcing can save scale-ups from having to bear the full cost and risk associated with big and potentially transformational technological investments.

You can't overlook the value in an outsourcing partner's experience either, explains Hannon. "They'll have worked with countless companies before, and will be able to provide direction from lessons learned. An outside perspective on where you can introduce greater efficiency can be a real asset as you grow."

Today, conversations about efficiency have a way of leading to automation like robotic process automation (RPA). This form of automation provides around-the-clock capabilities, produces replicable results at scale and handles repetitive tasks so your team members don't have to. These capabilities enable automated service channels — such as chatbots and intelligent FAQs — that play an important role in a modern digital customer experience operation. With the expertise of a proficient outsourcing partner, introducing automation becomes less resource-intensive.

"It can feel safe to stick with what you know. But to make the progression from product-market fit to profit-market fit, brands need to keep an open mind to new technologies, and new ways of bringing efficiency."

Outsourcing with TELUS Digital for next-generation, digitally led customer experiences means benefiting from 18 years of history and global reach that has served more than 650 global clients in 30 countries of operation. Reach out today to learn more about how we can help your scaling company achieve profit-market fit.

You've heard of product-market fit, but what about profit-market fit? Learn the difference and how scaling tech brands can achieve it.

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Why achieving profit-market fit is essential for scaling brands

Are you familiar with multimodal voice? Learn more about the technology set to have an important role in the future of digital CX. 

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Now we're talking: Multimodal voice and the future of digital CX

As the telecom industry faces mounting costs and shifting customer expectations, AI can turn challenges into opportunities. Learn more about the use cases.

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How telecom brands can seize industry opportunities with AI

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Want to speak with a Process Consulting expert?

Uncover how TELUS Digital’s business process consultants helped a leading financial services brand optimize its operations, enhance its customer experience (CX) and advance its digital transformation journey.

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Optimize your operations

Streamlining operations and advancing the digital transformation journey of a leading financial services brand

Discover how TELUS International successfully deployed a robotic process automation (RPA) solution for a leading waste management company to minimize time-consuming tasks and reduce the errors associated with manual data entry.

Implementing robotic process automation to streamline critical procurement processes

Discover how TELUS Digital successfully deployed a robotic process automation (RPA) solution for a leading waste management company to minimize time-consuming tasks and reduce the errors associated with manual data entry.

On this episode, we explore practical strategies for maintaining authentic customer connections and how, paradoxically, automation can make your experiences more human — not less.

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Is automation the key to more human, personalized experiences?

[00:01:56] How did Amanda get started in prosecuting money laundering in crypto?

[00:02:39] Why did Amanda start the Association for Women in Cryptocurrency?

[00:03:58] What are the catalysts reshaping the future of digital finance?

[00:04:48] How does social engineering pose a threat to crypto security?

[00:06:37] Why don't traditional financial regulations work well for cryptocurrency?

[00:10:47] How can brands stay ahead of evolving security threats?

[00:13:24] What role does AI play in enhancing crypto security?

[00:15:28] How can exchanges educate customers about crypto safety?

[00:17:31] Why is it important to understand different regulatory environments?

[00:18:50] What's the value of conducting a security risk assessment?

[00:21:01] How can robust data security practices drive revenue?

[00:24:41] What is the future of privacy in cryptocurrency?

[00:28:38] What role does the customer experience play in building trust?

[00:32:31] How can brands build trust in an era of declining institutional trust?

[00:00:00] Robert Zirk: Cryptocurrency and digital finance have revolutionized the way people send and receive payments and invest their money. These technologies provide autonomy and make financial services more accessible.

[00:00:15] But underlying this convenience is complexity. As financial technology evolves, so do the risks for consumers and brands alike. Cybercrime and sophisticated scams have made customer trust both more vital and more difficult to maintain for financial services and crypto brands, with a Pew Research Center study revealing that 63% of Americans are skeptical about the safety and dependability of cryptocurrency transactions.

[00:00:49] On this episode, I'm joined by Amanda Wick, founder and CEO of the Association for Women in Cryptocurrency, principal at Incite Consulting and author of The Catalysts: The Accelerating Forces Forging the New World Financial Order. Drawing from her background as a crypto advisor and former U.S. federal prosecutor specializing in financial crime, Amanda will share her perspectives on the biggest trust and safety challenges crypto and fintech brands face and how these brands can turn confidence into a competitive advantage.

[00:01:22] So today on Questions for now, we ask: How can crypto and fintech brands prevent fraud and maintain customer trust?

[00:01:39] Welcome to Questions for now, a podcast from TELUS Digital, where we ask today's big questions in digital customer experience. I'm Robert Zirk.

[00:01:53] Robert Zirk: Amanda's journey in crypto began in 2012 while she was a federal prosecutor at the U.S. Department of Justice, or DOJ.

[00:02:00] Amanda Wick: I was predominantly a money laundering and asset recovery prosecutor and one of my agents came in and said, "Do you know what a Bitcoin is?"

[00:02:08] And I said, "I don't think that's a real thing." And he said, "No, it is. And I'm pretty sure we got a guy laundering a lot of it, so we need to learn what it is."

[00:02:15] And back then there wasn't a formal training program, so we went to Google and YouTube and learned what it was. And then, over the course of the next seven or eight years, I focused predominantly on crypto money laundering and tracing dirty crypto.

[00:02:28] Robert Zirk: Following her time at the DOJ, Amanda became chief of legal affairs at Chainalysis, a blockchain analysis firm, and founded the Association for Women in Cryptocurrency.

[00:02:39] Amanda Wick: When I left the government and went to Chainalysis, I was struck by how different it was for women in the tech industry, especially in crypto. You would've looked around the industry and thought there were no women, but there were actually hundreds, if not thousands, of women doing really incredible things. And so I was like, "There's a community here that needs to find each other."

[00:02:57] We're a professional advocacy association because we're both a professional association and advocacy. And so there's an educational aspect and professional development. And then we also build a global network of support so if you're looking for a job, if you have questions, you're looking for a mentor, sponsors, we have a program for that. And we do events all around the world.

[00:03:19] The advocacy piece is probably what separates us, where it's a very active advocacy. So we have an initiative that we started last year called "Unmanel Your Panel", and this is where we just work with folks, especially conferences, to be more intentionally inclusive, to make sure that they know there's lots of women. We have a global inclusive speaker directory of over, I think, two or three hundred women and allies who are interested in speaking on a plethora of topics.

[00:03:45] Robert Zirk: Amanda recently authored her first book, The Catalysts: The Accelerating Forces Forging the New World Financial Order, which examines the factors that are reshaping the future of digital finance and the risks they present collectively.

[00:03:58] Amanda Wick: If you just look at the invention of cryptocurrency and disintermediate finance,

[00:04:02] Robert Zirk: ...which is the ability for people to invest and transact directly with one another without an intermediary, like a bank...

[00:04:09] Amanda Wick: ...if you just look at social engineering, if you just look at the rise of tech nation states, if you look in these massive things as silos and you don't take a 360 view, you miss a lot.

[00:04:21] So the book is really a breadth not depth book about all the forces that are basically clashing together to really impact what's happening in the world, especially financially, and how policy makers and regulators need to look at that entire aperture in order to be ready for what's coming.

[00:04:38] Robert Zirk: In her book, Amanda warns brands to be more cognizant of the threat posed by social engineering, particularly when combined with big data and AI.

[00:04:48] Amanda Wick: It's really terrifying because a lot of communities and societies in the world stopped teaching critical thinking. So you have a drop in a consumer's ability to be cognizant of it or to critically think or sift through all the misinformation and disinformation that's being pumped to them in algorithmically created social bubbles that they live in.

[00:05:11] And this isn't a political issue. This is on both sides of the political spectrum. And then you have this massive rise in transnational organized crime that is looking at social engineering, is looking at AI and crypto, and is using all of those tools to defraud people or to scam people. And that's wildly problematic.

[00:05:32] And whether it's Australia, the U.S., Canada, the U.K., you're talking about, like, generational wealth being lost to fraud scams at a level that's just proliferating and growing. And governments and law enforcement aren't even close to catching up or being ready to deal with that. And so it's not so much crypto crime, it's crime that's exploding that crypto happens to be used for and no kind of coordinated transnational government response — like, crime is organized and the government's response is not, and that's a massive problem.

[00:06:06] Robert Zirk: In financial services, it's important for brands to comply with various regulations to prevent criminal activity. These include KYC, which is Know Your Customer, and AML, or Anti-Money Laundering. Remember, this was Amanda's area of expertise as a federal prosecutor. Amanda noted that regulations created for traditional finance, or TradFi, don't always apply well to cryptocurrency as they were created and enacted long before crypto existed.

[00:06:37] Amanda Wick: We actually probably need new regs that are principles-based in the sense of, if what you wanna do is fight money laundering and terrorist financing, and if what you wanna do is no counterparty risk...

[00:06:49] Robert Zirk: ... which is the danger of unknowingly doing business with someone involved in illicit activities...

[00:06:54] Amanda Wick: ...then what does that look like in crypto? Because what's really hard in crypto compliance is transaction monitoring is actually really great.

[00:07:02] Robert Zirk: For example, if you wanted to deposit $10,000 in a traditional bank, you'll have to go through the bank's KYC processes. And while you may be subject to some questioning about the source of your funds, your bank won't be able to analyze the serial number on every individual bill and look up detailed ledgers showing that, several transactions ago, the money was used to finance a crime.

[00:07:25] But consider the functionality of a blockchain. The ledger is open and every transaction is mapped to an address, meaning it's possible to trace the path of the funds.

[00:07:36] Amanda Wick: In crypto, if I do a transaction, if I have a wallet and I send my address to the exchange, they can look back and say, "Uh, four hops ago, this woman's funds came from a darknet market, so there's a really good chance that she's doing something that she shouldn't." That level of transactional visibility actually makes AML/CFT ...

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